Author Topic: Steel work  (Read 10321 times)

Sarah

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Re: Steel work
« Reply #15 on: October 17, 2015, 01:49:53 AM »
I added some new yet current  pictures within photo bucket
Sure appreciate the team approach, thank you, Mick, Neil, Stuart and Phil
<a href="http://s304.photobucket.com/user/sarahannmitchell/media/FD5FA4B5-A6E6-42F4-8922-FE71A189362C_zps9p2oujqb.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn186/sarahannmitchell/FD5FA4B5-A6E6-42F4-8922-FE71A189362C_zps9p2oujqb.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo FD5FA4B5-A6E6-42F4-8922-FE71A189362C_zps9p2oujqb.jpg"/></a>

neil m

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Re: Steel work
« Reply #16 on: October 17, 2015, 11:31:35 PM »
Yes great Mick, thanks for getting a discussion going, when the site was down I was worried it may be due to lack of interest and Admin deemed it not worth it.
Stuart the splines are on the suspension units where the arm fixes on, you can remove the pinch bolt and move the arm on the spline so adjusting the ride height. a pic would help explain.
neil m


neil m

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Re: Steel work
« Reply #17 on: October 17, 2015, 11:47:51 PM »
Here is a pic from peak dynamics, which shows the splines and arms..


michael-griffin

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Re: Steel work
« Reply #18 on: October 18, 2015, 12:40:57 AM »
Nice Photo’s Sarah, think I may have spotted a problem that may be contributing to your wheel arch problem.
Without the wardrobe and the bookcase supporting the roof there is a tendency for the weight of the roof to cause the sides to “belly out” which along with your “suspension sag” will decrease the inner wheel arch to tyre, clearance at the top.
Easy way to rectify, rotate the suspension drop arm 2 or3 splines and put a temporary brace across the middle from side to side just above the join, a simple Spanish windlass would suffice (loop of rope with a stick or similar through the middle and rotate)
What do you all think ?
I had a glass fibre boat (Dawncraft Rover) that suffered very badly from “bellying out” due to the previous owner removing all the roof supports, the roof dropped over 6 inches and it took six months of very gentle pulling in and jacking up and waiting to avoid cracking.
The height of a Caraboat according to the brochure is 8ft 6inches max ( to the hump over the door?) unfortunately it does not say if thats a mk1 or 2 (mk1 being a little higher) could one of you good people out there set your drawbar at 16 inches and take a measurement please, if its right according to the brochure could you measure the clearance at the back from floor to bottom of boat?.

This may help to understand splines, it shows the bonded unit with the male splined end exposed the drop arm with the female splines would push over and be pinched up at the desired position its also from the peak site with a mick mod

[/URL]][URL=http://s479.photobucket.com/user/caraboatinfo/media/caraboat/suspension%20caraboat2_zpse9cggpep.jpg.html][/URL]

Sarah

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Re: Steel work
« Reply #19 on: October 19, 2015, 06:08:01 PM »
Mick, Jay will be giving her a boost for a bit more clearance around the tire (tyre) area,Thanks for the tip.  I've added some pictures to photo bucket. Currently, I'm beginning to plan for the work on the crazing and other fiberglass repairs within the yellow area. I'm thinking I may need to do a total re-gel coating of the entire area.
Have any of you considered changing colors?
Also thinking of painting these aluminum window frames? My "learning" curve has left a bit of damage as I man handled a few frames causing a few severe gouges.
My project date of completion was to be this May, now I'm thinking that's a bit of a dream. Lol
Although, so enjoying the restoration work at hand.

michael-griffin

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Re: Steel work
« Reply #20 on: October 22, 2015, 07:45:16 PM »
Hi Sarah, Jay’s right to sort these problems out whilst the Caraboat is empty and he can get to everything has Jay considered Kevlar on the inside at the back 2 quarters its a lot stronger and you may be able to get off cuts from auto bodyshops .
Fibreglass is very easy to repair, but very difficult to make an “as new” finish, a complete “re-gel” is extremely difficult, especially if you want a consistent smooth finish as the gel coat is the first part to be layed up in the mould, its not a job I would attempt.
Small areas like the one in the photo can be repaired easily with fresh resin or body filler before the whole lot is flatted off.
Paint is a different ball game, Neil M has painted his Caraboat and it looks fantastic (how did you do it Neil ?), I find modern water based paint systems are ideal for repaints, giving good coverage and very little sag where filling has taken place,  crazed gel coat is a nightmare to cover with older cellulose or acrylic 2 pack paints shrinking back and leaving “spider cracks” often made worse by old polish containing wax or silicon, each crack will require to be de-greased prior  to being filled (usually wiped in after an initial flatting) before any paint is applied, have you considered vinyl rapping?.
Aluminium needs to be etched with an isocyanate coating (very dangerous) to key the surface to hold paint but again water based paint will often stay on for a considerable time before flaking, once more have you considered vinyl or even printed vinyl (boat name or design) on the big flat aluminium panels this is my intention as a family member is an expert (   http://www.chalkiesdecals.co.uk )
May sound like a great target to aim for get the big stuff done, and whats not finished you can do whilst you are using it, remember its later than you think!
It was your Henry Ford who said “you can have it any colour (sorry color) you want as long as its black” I think Mr Carr thought the same, I think you should express yourself and have it what ever color you want.
Best wishes
Mick G

Sarah

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Re: Steel work
« Reply #21 on: October 23, 2015, 03:16:10 AM »
Hi Mick,

I believe a white Kevlar fabric product has been "sandwiched" between the
layers of fiberglass work completed to date. I actually enjoy the glassing faze, not so amused with the sanding part tho- the large tool is a bit awkward for me still. I suppose it's mostly the power of the learning curve.
Unfortunately, Jay is out of town, he will be back on the 30th. I will share your email with him then. We both so appreciate your input. My brother is not one for the Internet, yet he is thoroughly impressed with the information all of you here on the forum have so kindly shared with us.

Meanwhile, the window framing has all been scrubbed and wet sanded, the plan is to use Zinc Chromate and then spray paint...
A good friend has been so kind to make me new panels out of stainless steel, Jay also changed the width of the larger side panels from 29.5" to 46" and YES this is where I want her name placed with groovy 70's flower power spelling out {Shambhala} 😍 I will checkout your family members website, Thank You! I wonder if window frame vinyl could be made to match the custom logo and what the durability would be? Have you seen this done on a Caraboat before?
Jay feels a durable plastic safety glass would be best and I'm looking into this now, as well as, considering having them mirrored?( Truly the least of my concerns right now, just in the planning/shopping around stage)

As for the crazing within the gel coat. Whew! It is throughout the entire lower fold/bend. Jay feels the boat has simply sat too long in a sag with zero structural support, in his opinion, once he lifts the frame for stability they (cracks,blisters, chips and blemishes) must all be removed via my handy dandy new skill set in sanding " yay me" lol   I actually chose to hand sand the encompassing area of the tub placement before he re-inserted and glued it down using a marine grade 5200 sealant.
I'm truly loving the work, but, man... Sanding seems like an endless endeavor. The pay off has been very good for me.
With this being said, Jay is confident in his Gel Coating...( Maybe because I'm the sander 😬) Here in the states many boaters are drifting away from gel coat and using car paint, Jay frowns on this as
the ending product needs repainted more often, you cannot revert back to gel coat once the auto paint is used  and the results are not as grand as gel coat. (Simply Jays opinion here in the Northwest and on boats he is familiar with)  Thank you for the information on older cellulose and acrylic 2 pack paints
As this may be a game changer for our current plan.
My thoughts on a total colour change, if I can salvage the yellow I sure want to, if I can't, Shambhala will get an updated stripe colour. It's hard to imagine shifting away from the yellow. Although, Burgundy has come to mind.

Henry Ford, a great man indeed, here I think Jay would say in quote to this outstanding business man in quote; "Quality means, doing it right when no one is looking"
Now, I would utilize his famous quote of:
"Coming together is a beginning;
Keeping together is progress;
Working together is success."

Have a wonderful weekend Mick! and again, Thank You!
Sincerely Sarah






neil m

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Re: Steel work
« Reply #22 on: October 23, 2015, 11:57:34 AM »
Hi Mick & Sarah,
Well "Helterskelter" had already been painted when I got her, John Nelson had met the previous owner on the Lancaster Canal who had it done professionally, So not sure what paint system was used. It has flaked off some of the Ali parts so I have touched up here and there and stripped it off some parts like the rear door where it was pretty bad. I think she sank soon after so they would have been better spending the money on the frame. The roof section is unpainted as well as the bottom of the hull.
It seems the Yellow section of the boats that have the main problems with the gel coat, if you can match it and repair it that would take longer but last much longer.
Looks like you are doing a great job.
neil m

Sarah

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Re: Steel work
« Reply #23 on: October 23, 2015, 05:46:36 PM »
Oh Neil my biggest fear... Sinking my beauty. (Jay is keeping on top of my glassing and keeping a watchful eye on my work- I still worry ) Thank goodness he has experience and the patience to guide me through.
We will need to touch up the lower front and back with gel coat but the sides and top simply needs a good buffing. The yellow area... Jay feels it needs to be totally repainted at this point, time will tell once I have some sanding completed.

What is the approximat height of Helterskelter?
I plan to print our current posts, as I have minimal understanding within the wheel arch problem, Mick and you have discussed adding valuable insight for us.
We have no access to these parts in the states.
The towsure link you have provided me has been wonderful as well.
 



michael-griffin

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Re: Steel work
« Reply #24 on: October 24, 2015, 12:00:03 PM »
Hi Sarah, that’s sad that Jay has no internet, the wealth of knowledge out there is amazing.
You love to live on the edge don’t you, “zinc chromate” is a known carcinogen and should only be applied in controlled environments, with all the correct safety equipment in place e.g. air fed respirator etc, it should also not be use below water level as the surface can dissolve and is poison to aquatic life, a bit like the old anti-fouling (now banned).
I’m not familiar with “window frame vinyl” I assume it is use to change the colour of upvc window frames ?.
I don’t like glass on boats not even toughened glass , with so many Perspex type plastic’s about, I think it to be far superior  to glass as it bends when it comes into contact with branches etc that overhang our narrow canals, unlike glass which breaks into a million pieces, However I do like the idea of a mirror finish vinyl on the inside to hold the glass together in the event of a breakage, I shall talk to Craig (chalkies) to see what he can get at family discount lol.
The crazing on the sides are much worse that I have seen on UK caraboats I think Jay may be correct about the lack of support but I wonder if the sun has played a big part as well not sure about temperatures in your state (tell Jay I’m going to Google it)
Good luck with the flatting I’m sure Henry would never do anything by hand that could be done quicker by a machine, and the final polish will need to be done with fine compound and a mechanical buffer.
I think of the Caraboat as an “Edsel” It should have been the best thing since sliced bread “BUT” , and in view of the date (back to the future) I will quote “Marty Mcfly”  “You bought an Edsel ??” clearly one of Ford’s biggest mistakes (apart from the pinto) now it has a enthusiastic following just like the Caraboat.
Best wishes
Mick G
Ps  another great vehicle that failed big time was the “Sinclair C5” designed by Sir Clive Sinclair with the motor and other parts made by “Timex” look it up and then think what sad person would own one.

Sarah

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Re: Steel work
« Reply #25 on: October 24, 2015, 05:27:00 PM »
Hey Mick, your wit and humor has left me with big smiles for my day, I so enjoy hearing from you!
The Sinclair C5 seems to be an adventurous item ( Google was loaded with info on them)
I find the Internet to be an amazing tool.
Jay carries a smart phone and will accept a text, yet, will always call rather then just simply texting back. Myself, I prefer the text fest. The great news is he (Jay) shares my enthusiasm in my restoration
project here and has been a fierce force in her re-build.
Zinc Chromate... Maybe this is why he would not set me free with this product.
I assumed it was do to my theory of more is better. Yes, I will admit I have a heavy hand with a spray can....
A little story here. My first day of sanding fiberglass, I took off my hat and gloves and loosened the garment around my neck. ( the mask was left on, I was just so hot) When I had completed my sanding he said I needed to hurry up and go take a cold shower. Without question, I did. Although, I was certain that he was going to be laughing at me for following his instructions here-Turns out this was needed as I had exposed my skin to the fibers. Any how, I'm so very lucky to have a brother whom supports my passions and "attempts" to keep me safe.
I have opened a dialogue of conversation with Chalkie. I also found his company on Facebook!
Have a fabulous weekend, Sarah

Sarah

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Re: Steel work
« Reply #26 on: October 24, 2015, 06:26:30 PM »
Hey Mick, I so appreciated the "family inn" discount offer too, thank you.
I'm looking forward to hearing back from  Chalkie.
Take care, Sarah

neil m

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Re: Steel work
« Reply #27 on: October 24, 2015, 08:08:12 PM »
Hi Sarah,
Just to let you know "Helterskelter" Is 8'2" measured at its highest point above the rear door on its wheels, and 6' 3" air draught  in the water. The wheel arch problem is due to the frame bending and cracking open the GRP, this was due to the frame not being strong enough, I couldn't see your frame on the video as your floor was down but I guess you have replaced it. You can tell its bending by the wheels leaning in at the top and starting to rub on the wheel arches.
On this picture of my old and new frame you can see the bend on the port side of the old frame..


Sarah

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Re: Steel work
« Reply #28 on: October 26, 2015, 10:42:31 PM »
Thanks for the measurements Neil, the partical board floor is for temporary use, I was able to measure from the highest arch point at back door and directly down to the hull base this height is 7'2"
It is unclear to me as to how to measure to the actual tyre as you have.
I can see what Mick had discussed in regards to the belly of the boat sagging outward tho.

neil m

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Re: Steel work
« Reply #29 on: October 26, 2015, 11:11:59 PM »
Hi Sarah,
To get my dimension, I placed a fairly long spirit level on the arch above the rear door, leveled it up and then measure down from this at the side to the ground..
hope this helps,
all the best,
neil m